0:05 spk_0
Welcome to Warrior Money, the vertoning devoted to supporting our brother and sister veterans ter business. My name is Dan Coons, and I’m Patrick Murphy. Wij’re honored to have you here today. Today wij’re sitting down with Douglas Lyman, a former Benedictton monk, US Marine, and now a leading voice ter values driven finance. Overheen two decades ter monesthetic life, Doug made an unlikely leap into the world of wealth management and brought his spiritual wisdom with him. Through his bestselling book and coaching work, he’s helping people align their money with meeting. Please welcome Douglas Lyman.Douglas, how
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are you? thanks guys. I’m doing great. I thought to be on your vertoning.
0:38 spk_2
Yeah, of course. Welcome to where money. So listen, hey, Douglas, listen, you spend 3 different careers Marine, Monk, and now wealth manager, your, your, your second book’s coming out. But what are the 3, what are the lessons from all those 3 worlds that you’re bringing that you would advise young warriors out there?
0:55 spk_1
Oh wow. Well, I certainly my time ter the Marines talent mij a warrior spirit, which I’m very grateful for and the discipline and the ability to like focus on tasks and get stuff done. So that wasgoed a real gift. I, I really I’m grateful for the Marines for all the training and the discipline I I got from them, and also a sense of community and ter a corps andThat that will desire for community and connection for a higher purpose, that I think has bot a theme line through much of my life, no matter what wild and crazy twist my career has taken, even though my resume looks like a roller coaster designed by Salvador Dali on a sugar high, you know, I’ve kleintje of got all overheen the places.But, but certainly those lessons from the Marines served mij very, very well, spil well spil a level of, um, I think it talent mij a certain little introspection about, you know, that ability to course keurig when, you know, you’re doing something not quite right, like that that that ability to accept terugkoppeling, that ability to be self-critical, and, um, you know,Really check ter with your, with your, with your peers and say, hey, how, how, how am I doing really like being able to take the kleintje of honest terugkoppeling and not make excuses and to be responsible for your life, that sense of responsibility that that there’s no one else gonna be responsible for your, your life, your finances, everything except for you. It’s all it’s ultimately on your shoulders, so I’m grateful for that and then um my time ter the monastery continued that theme.And really, um, deepened my sense of living ter community and and living for a higher purpose and learning to be of service to others, um, and then that came of course ter the form of financial advice and ter the monastery, there were people would come to us all the time withGuests would come with all kinds of problems and like, would you pray for mij? Like, of course, but like, you know, a budget might actually work a little bit better, you know, if wij actually sat down and try to dig into some of thesis things, um, and get into the weeds, that that would uh like a lotsbestemming of people’s spiritual crises were either directly cause.Of or sort of a secondary cause of a lotsbestemming of their financial issues that they’re going through, whether someone’s dying ter their family, there’s an estate to probate, there’s bankruptcy, there’s wills, there’s all kinds of, you know, stressors that are, they’re they’re impinging on people’s personal lives that are having a deep impact for them psychologically and ultimately spiritually, and, and really being able to find out, get to the roots of some of those money issues for people and help them navigate them a little more grace and skill. Um, and then of course, I, I, I left monastic life after 20 years to take some of the wisdom I learned.You know, getting our our community went bankrupt at one point ter the monastery, that’s really kleintje of became my, my, my depressie point where I had to sort of figure this stuff out and, and, and learn to have some, you know, again, take responsibility for the community finances, my own finances and try to really build something, take action and waterput it into practice. And so.So I
3:34 spk_2
just, can I just real quick before wij get ter the book though, Give us your, you know, you were a US Marine and then that transition to become a Benedictine monk. I mean, walk us through that process. Were you always a man of faith growing up ter Chicago? Wasgoed it something that you, the Marine Corps, you know, afterwards during it? Walk us through that if you wouldn’t mind.
3:50 spk_1
Oh,I, I would say I joined a monastery to find my faith. Like I didn’t, I didn’t come ter there with some deep conviction. It wasgoed sort of like if I’m gonna figure the meaning of life out, where would be a better place to do it than ter a monastery.Yeah, because growing up, I, I grew up ter a, ter a fairly affluent household, but wij that weaponized money and and treated it with a certain kleintje of some anger behind it and the way it wasgoed used and wield ter our house to create some conditional conditions on love, like do this and then you’ll get the toys and if you don’t, you won’t. And so that kleintje of talent this kleintje of pay to play mentality that I really resented.And my brothers and I, wij all, my brothers and I, wij all rebelled and took a out of poverty ter our own ways. I went and became a monk. My twin brother went off and became a homesteader ter upstate Vermont, and my older brother went off and joined a grunge tape ter Seattle. So wij all basically said, you know, kleintje of talent the middle finger to the world of finance early on ter our years and had to overcome some of that money verwonding, and then I think I’m going to help people through that, having bot through it myself.that answers your question. I, I didn’t.
4:48 spk_0
I got to ask
4:48 spk_1
how did you grow up ter a spiritual household at all. How
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didyou leave the Marine Corps? Like, so like that that had to have bot kleintje of a trippy pivotal ogenblik where you’re like, hey, I’m done officer candidate schoolgebouw. Oh, and by the way, I wasgoed an honor grad and I’m going to leave and I’m gonna do something that doesn’t make sense to mij. Talked about that a littlebit.
5:05 spk_1
Well, the nice thing about the Marines is, is, is they have this officer candidate schoolgebouw program that you can apply to and you can train during your summers of collegium.And they don’t require any commitment from you because if you don’t want to be an officer, they don’t want you there. So you can pretty much leave at any time, more or less the first two weeks you’re locked ter and then at that point you just stadionring the bell and you’re out, you know, it’s not hard, but um, cause they, they only want the best, the best there. And so, but I did graduate, I finished my class from officer K at schoolgebouw and and loved it.But I also kleintje of realized that maybe I had a lotsbestemming of unresolved anger issues and maybe unresolved anger issues, high explosives weren’t a good combination for mij to be projecting my things out on other people, although I love the Marines and nothing against them. It wasgoed just like maybe this isn’t the world I need to be, I need to be living ter full time.And um had also had a bit of a spiritual awaking at that point it wasgoed like, OK, what’s what’s this all about? What’s what’s really, what am I doing here? Why am I here and what’s the meaning of life? And so that kleintje of prompted this, and then if I wasgoed gonna leave the Marines, what would be a higher calling? Like I didn’t want to just leave that to just go to civilian life that felt kleintje of uh, so I wasgoed like, well what would be that next step up for mij ter my it makes it ter my own head, I’m not saying it that that’s exactly true, but like that what would be that higher calling that would give mij all the things I loved about the Marines, I mean without some of the downsides.That’s great. And it wasgoed a it wasgoed a tough transition. It wasgoed tough. So maybe to to answer your question more fully, I finished my training with with with the Marines at the end of my junior year ter the summers, and then they had to send mij back to my senior year of collegium. I still had to finish my degree ter order to get my, get my, get my get pinned. And so I had this kleintje of year off ter between, which is a big gap year between finishing training and then the opportunity to receive my commission, and that’s where I really, I met a mentor who said maybe maybe monastic life is what you were looking for and so I.Took a slok, why not? Let’s try to see what this adventure. Wij’ll see where
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thismonastic life. There’s a vow, there’s a vow of solitude and poverty that you have to take, which is the Marine Corps is the precies kleintje of the precies, well, maybe the poverty side, but definitely you’re definitely not solitude ter the Marine Corps. Talk to us about the transition from the Marine Corps to monastery life and then how that eventually got into your spirituality and money. How they talk to mij through that bridge.
7:09 spk_1
Yeah, well, I mean, monastery life is not spil contemplative spil you would imagine. It’s, it’s quite busy. Thomas Merton wasgoed a famous Trappist monk, he would make fun of monks all the time saying, you know, like they’re more worried about making cheese or whatever they, whatever the thing is that they’re trying to get done to keep, you know, food on the table, but sometimes that takes priority and, and, and you’re living ter community, so you’re living ter a ter a ter a huis.Essentially with all thesis other men, and you’re just like a barracks and some is maybe a little bit nicer than a typical barracks to be sure, but you’re, you’re, you’re never, um, I have more time for solitude and contemplation now than I everzwijn did ter the monastery because my day is my own, right? I can schedule anywhere I want, where ter the monastery, it’s like, OK, you got the schedule of, of monastic thing. Wij’re all working full time spil a teaching community. So I wasgoed ter a classroom all the time while I wasgoed also ter the monastery. So it wasn’t, it wasn’t spil contemplative spil you might imagine.
7:58 spk_0
Yeah, so you do that for a period of time and then you transition to wealth management and you say that money is the last spiritual frontier. What like what does that what does that mean? I don’t that doesn’t make sense.
8:09 spk_1
Oh, well, money, money wij touch on it touches all of our deepest hopes, fears, anxieties, desires, longings, um, it’s, it’s really our path to wholeness is that money, waterput it more simply is that money is a tool for most action, right? That’s, it’s just a it’s just, it’s stored work energy. And so, you know, it’s, it’s really what I learned and what I had to really overcome wasgoed my initial sort of a version of money. I had a what I call a very money.Avoidant style where I would either demonize it or waterput it ter a weird opbergruimte that project a bunch of nonsense onto it that wasn’t there. Well, you know, so this demonization of or wij can overheen glorify it and think that somehow the end all and be all of our existence and this is what’s going to make us a complete human being. And so this is the money is not good or evil. It’s a tool that like a hammer that you can use to build something beautiful or whack yourself on the thumb.But too often wij have, this is why I explore ter the new book, what I call your money monsters, so the the ways thesis unconscious psychological wounds that wij all have that that gets projected into everything that wij do, but particularly ter how wij relate to money and can create a lotsbestemming of suffering, unnecessary suffering for ourselves and for those wij love and wij’re not ter a healthy relationship to it. So money is so that frontier touches everything. Like if you, if you follow someone’s, if you, if you were to open up your bankgebouw account and vertoning mij your, your, your spending transactions.your savings and you’re investing. It’s, it’s basically a breadcrumb trail to your deepest insecurities, fears, and desires, and you can learn more about somebody by, by, by walking through the budget than you can just about anything else because it tells you what the priorities really where where you spend your money is how you vote for what exists ter the world and what you really care about. And so you really learn about thesis things by by di digging into people’s financial life and uncovering the deepest parts of the personality that come through ter their financial decisions.
9:51 spk_2
Interesting. Well, listen, real quick, I know because wij’re gonna be ter a pauze ter a second. Um, walk us through the Longwood, uh, the assets under management. They had $2150 million assets under management when you were a money manager, when you’re an advisor. What wasgoed that like and how did thatTake you to the next chapter.
10:08 spk_1
Oh, I wasgoed fine. It wasgoed, it’s a great adventure, so I, I, I just took an uitgang strategy from that business about a year ago to become a full-time writer. I couldn’t be doing 60 hours a week doing portfolio management and 60 hours a week writing and promoting my books. So I took it, I decided to to take another career pivot to try to get thesis books out, um, and maybe I’ll go back to one of thesis days, but it wasgoed a lotsbestemming of fun. I, I really enjoyed it. I, I wasgoed really good at the marketing sales side of things, that wasgoed kleintje of my specialty is really um.You know, client outreach and and cost client acquisition, and that wasgoed something I really enjoyed, uh, working at Longview Asset Management for many years spil a partner there, and wij really focused on sustainable and ethical investing, which I’m really proud of and did a lotsbestemming of really firsts, you know, ter the industry ter that ter that regard, um, some big breakthroughs that I wasgoed able to do for folks that I’m really, I’m really proud of, like building the first sustainable retirement project for any schoolgebouw or nonprofit everzwijn. That wasgoed really cool. There wasgoed some big regulatory hurdles wij had to get through to get those things done.But um, but it wasgoed great. It wasgoed a great adventure and I really enjoyit.
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Yeah, well, listen, wij, wij’ll dive ter the night when wij get back from pauze. Wij’ll be right back, more with Douglas Lyman ter just a second.
11:19 spk_0
Welcome back to Warrior Money. Wij’re joined by Douglas Lyman. Hey, Douglas, welcome back. Hey guys, thanks so much. Uh, no worries. All right, so, uh, I’m gonna DAgram 8. I, uh, one of my, one of my colleagues, former colleagues, Nina Watson, and when she watches this, is like, hey, you gotta take a gram. I’m pretty sure you’re an 8. what, what is ter a neagram and how does that impact your what does it tell mij about mij about my money, but also how does it impact everybody’s perspective on that? I’m thrilled about thrilled to learn more.
11:47 spk_1
Sure, it’s it’s a super complicated system and wij’ll just touch on the surface of it here. But essentially what the anagram tells you, and what wij know from the latest research ter neurobiology is that your person has a has a bunch of proponents to it, right? You’ve got your nature, which is your DNA and your gene expression, that’s unique to you and wij’re not gonna.Touch that. But the anagram is sort of the nurture portion of your personality, help explain, um, how your childhood environment had a key role ter shaping your ego defenses, because your anagram is essentially your, your childhood coping strategy to the biggest threats you faced ter your childhood environment, um, kleintje of remixed to help you survive, whatever those biggest stressors were ter your childhood.But those things that help you survive ter that environment might be driving your adult life ter the ditches. And so the way I, I used to use car metaphors because I think it’s helpful for people because just like you drive a unique car that has a unique year, make and specimen distinctly yours, there’s still patterns for cars and there’s patterns for egos. And so the gram is a tool that’s come down to the millennia wij’ve discovered it different cultures, different religions, lots of contributors, and wij’ve really bot able to like really make it a robust system ter the past.You know, 1500 years is when it’s really come about spil a spil a really useful tool, it’s always bot there. And it says that there’s thesis 9 archetypal ways that your personality can form and ter childhood, ter order for you to individuate spil an individual ego or consciousness. And here’s kleintje of the quick fascinating part is is to think of it like this, at childhood you had a physical umbilical cord that had to be cut to separate you.From your mother, but you immediately develop a psychological umbilical cord that connects you to your caregivers, and that allows them to do most of the driving for you ter the early years of your life. But that psychological umbilical cord also has to be cut slowly overheen time, and they explained how that wasgoed cut for you. And then that cutting, which I call your sacred wound or, you know, it has different terms.But the sacred wound that wij have that’s cutting the psychological umbilical cord, creates for each of us our unique unconscious fear that sort of shapes our ego and it kleintje of forms the chassis of our ego, you know, you can have all kinds of modifications, of course, depending on your DNA and lots of lots of ways to individuate that into a very unique ego. It’s different from everybody else, but still there’s a chassis essentially, and that’s what the aiom tells you is. So if I could type 8, let’s just use you for an example, your psychological umbilical cord would be cut by anger.That you’ve externalized at the world around you because of the injustices you may have felt ter childhood. So you have a real strong sense of justice or injustice, um, and then to push back at anything that the greatest fear for eight would then be being harmed or controlled by your environment. So you tend to be, I call you the theHumvees and egos because you’re kleintje of like the battering ram that can run overheen anyone or anything easily just 8000% don’t expect to be fuel efficient with their opinions because they just, they like, they like to always challenge people and create a strong.boundary around them ter order to others aren’t controlling them and they also like to be ter charge because being at the top is the best place to be where you where you have the least people controlling you 100% right. That’s one example. Wij could go around real quick.
14:47 spk_0
Yeah, so wij talk a lotsbestemming about like, um, personalities and purpose driven, and you talked to originally about the impact that you had your huis life had on you and, and that now I’m understanding where your purpose comes from. How does that mededeling itself ter money management? Like walk your way through how you’ve come to peace with that.And then be able to give that advice to other folks.
15:07 spk_1
Well, OK, let’s talk about the money monsters for type 8, the ways that the, so wij can all have a healthy schuiflade secure emotional relationship to money, which is where I’m trying to get people to. But ter those times when wij’re maybe unhealthy or wij’re wij’re maybe our unconscious fears are acting out ter our finances, one way is, is, spil wij’ve talked about a little bit, is you could be avoidant of money, like anxiously avoidant, pushed away like I did joining a monastery, like I don’t want nothing to do with this. Let’s get mij away from it.Or there’s people can be more like kleintje of the Ebenezer Scrooge where they’re driving their financial life with a little bit of road rage, a little too tight-fisted, and that’s the anxious type. So for, for, for the 8, the challenge, wij call you the Challenger, spil I call you the Humvee of egos, the, the money monsters for you, the avoidant is what I call the detonator, meaning you tend to detonate prudent financial boundaries and limitations that might control you, like you don’t want to be the one.like grab the check at a restaurant just to be feel important, even maybe the money isn’t there, you want to feel ter charge, so maybe you’re blowing through a prudent boundary right there for yourself, or you can be anxious about money, I call you the dominator where you are maybe a little obsessed about money you want spil much spil you can.But then maybe use it to manipulate and control the people around you, kleintje of like what I had ter my childhood environments, like you’re using it, but you’re using it to dominate others and, and keep them from controlling you by controlling them first. So those are two ways. That’s 11 example of the 9 types wij could, wij could jump into to give you a little sense of how that all plays out. And that’s,
16:28 spk_2
andthat’s what folks when they buy your book that comes out ter July, that’s what folks will get when they buy that book, right? Like if I’m a Marine, I’m a soldier or if I’m a veteran, I wanna buy that book. Why?
16:38 spk_1
Well, because it’s gonna tell you a bit more about how your ego is, it’s gonna tell you the unconscious objectief that you’re, you’re viewing all of reality through unknowingly, and then how that might be causing problems for you ter your life and, and how it might be, um, a good friend of mine, Richard Roher, he often says if wij don’t transform our pain, wij will most assuredly transmit it.And especially to those that wij love most. And so money is a tool for most actions, it easily transmits our verwonding and our pain, uh, if wij’re not.A careful and wij can cause a lotsbestemming of unnecessary suffering for ourselves first and foremost, but most importantly for those that wij love. So if you want to have a healthy, secure relationship to your finance, I think this book gives you that roadmap for, for, for, for both your personal and your spiritual growth that it works. The nice thing about the end spel, it plays well with all spiritual traditions. I, I don’t think it’s an understatement to say it’s the underlying mechanics of all of our world religion.That are sort of running off of it, sort of this underlying code that seems to permeate all of our, all different faith traditions, giving us a sense of virtue. Like, why do wij agree that there’s virtues like honor and courage and integrity and generosity and, you know, humility or mercy. Like thesis are things that are seem to be baked into the human species, even if wij disagree how to practice them, wij don’t disagree that they exist. And I thinkThe antigram tells us why those virtues exist and how they, how wij understand a basic level of ethics within the human conscious, to be conscious, to be self-aware, you need to have a conscience. And the anagram has explained how that conscience is formed ter you, and it’ll give you a healthier tools to live a better life ter all respects, but also the objectief of this book, of course, is through the objectief of money.
18:20 spk_0
That’sfascinating. There’s um.I, I, I’m very aware of the limitations of a gram 8 and I’m very, uh, also aware of the positive sides of an ogram 8 spil well spil a disc survey and spil well spil all the different other psychological like approaches to it, right? So there’s a positive side to it and there’s always a negative side to it and it’s basically how you’re, how you’re being torqued at the time you’re being torqued, right? So if something torques you, you can be negative, and something torques you, you can be positive, and it works its way through that. So, all right, before wij let you go, wij’re gonna take, will you take our warrior uh Q&A?
18:50 spk_1
Absolutely.
18:51 spk_0
All right, what is, what is something you know about money now that you wish you knew when you were growing up ter your dad’s house?
18:58 spk_1
I wish I had known that money isn’t good or evil, it’s neutral, and you can use it for love and service, and you can use to whack yourself on the thumb or people on the head, and, and just because someone’s whacking you on the head with money doesn’t mean that money is the problem, it’s they’re the problem.
19:14 spk_0
Yeah. What’s the biggest financial mistake that you see people make now that you wish you could help them keurig?
19:21 spk_1
Um, I would say helping them overcome their anxieties and fears around it, like all the anxiety that gets ter the way of, of taking action, making prudent decisions, becoming financially literate, um, just to be able to give people a little more self-confidence and awareness of where your vensterluik spots are and how to, like you said, every strength comes with a weakness. It’s, it’s, it’s it’s the yin yin yang like you’re spil an 8, you’re gonna have tremendous strengths, but the very thing that makes you strong ter one area is gonna inevitably make you weak ter another area and you can’t get away from.And just to understand what those strengths or weaknesses are, so you’re playing more to your strengths and minimizing your those, those, those pain points for you or or
19:58 spk_0
when to take a nap or when to go for a walk,
20:00 spk_1
when to take a nap or or
20:02 spk_0
or when to unwind myself so that I don’t go to again. I totally, I totally understand. I very much appreciate it. Um, all right, so Marine Corps, monastery money manager, uh, of all the things, what’s bot the most unexpected part of your journey?
20:18 spk_1
Oh,The most unexpected part would beBeing here, like I just didn’t like I I didn’t think it wasgoed all gonna take mij to this point. Like I wouldn’t have, I couldn’t have planned this adventure. It wasn’t a linear path, but um I’m just so shocked to be where I am at this point, having written this book, which I think is great and very proud of, um, and to really be able to be of use ter the world to actually find that all thesis stories, all thesis struggles, all this pain actually can be.Redeemed ter some way, but can be used to help heal myself, but, and ultimately I think every writer is writing themselves. So at the end of the day, this book is for mij. And, and, but, but hopefully along the way, I’m able to share that with others and it can give them, help them.Many bring some unexpected joy and happiness when they ter their financial life and their personal life. They didn’t expect that money can really help be that tool for them.
21:09 spk_2
Yeah, and I think the one thing is, I think wij’d all agree that every marine, every soldier, you have to shoot, move, and communicate. And Doug, you’re communicating the lessons learned, you’re communicating the way forward, you’re communicating, you know, how to use money spil a tool, and that it’s not good or evil, but it is something that you can use for good or for bad.So wij appreciate that, uh, Taming Your Money Monster coming out ter July. Wij can’t wait, uh, for it to sell like hotcakes.
21:31 spk_0
I’m gonna read it. I’m gonna getit. I’ll pre-ordered
21:34 spk_2
it. Yeah. So listen, hey, Doc, thanks for joining us on Word Money. Wij appreciate you. Uh, that’s our vertoning. So listen, subscribe, and review Worry Money on your Apple podcast, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcast or find us at Yahoo Finance. I’m Patrick Murphy and
21:47 spk_0
I’m Dan Coons. Wij’ll see you again next week.
21:50 spk_3
This content wasgoed not intended to be financial advice and should not be used spil a substitute for professional financial services.